notes.jays.net

New vocab: ketosis, 'fat adapted'

Originally posted to deafferret on 2012-10-10.

irc.perl.org #paleo

15:02 <@bar> At easter I stumbled

15:03 <@bar> because I was down 80lbs and multiple clothing sizes

15:03 <@bar> “I can handle this”

15:03 <@bar> but managed to reset ketosis, managed to kick me out of “fat adapted” and craving carbs

…

15:17 <@jhannah> wow… i… hate chemistry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis

15:17 <@jhannah> bar++ # wise in the ways of science

15:17 <@foo> jhannah: is this the first you’ve heard of ketosis?

15:17 <@jhannah> yes? I’m staring at this wiki page blankly

15:17 <@foo> huh

15:17 <@bar> you never looked at Atkins then

15:18 <@jhannah> nope

15:18 <@bar> here’s the best ketosis advice you’ll ever get

15:18 <@foo> ketosis is why low carb (like atkins) work. and why a lot of paleo people shun carby things (fruits, tubers, etc)

15:18 <@bar> if you are in ketosis, specifically if you’re in long term

15:18 <@bar> drink enough water that you have to pee every 45 minutes

15:19 <@bar> the problem with ketosis is that shit really shouldn’t stay long term in your blood

15:19 <@bar> I have no problem with ketosis because I drink more than 2gal of water per day

15:19 <@bar> it has no chance to overwork my kidneys trying to clean it out of my system

15:21 <@bar> the downside being that you pee… A LOT.

15:21 <@bar> when I was in full bore weight loss mode

15:21 <@bar> if my diet remained constant, I could abarually vary my weight loss per day by varying the amount of water I drank

15:23 <@jhannah> oh. this is much more helpful than wp http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/faq/f/whatisketosis.htm

15:24 <@jhannah> ORLY? “"The Atkins Diet, in particular, advises people to monitor ketosis as an indication of fat burning.”“

15:24 <@jhannah> i had no idea Atkins meant "pee on strips”

15:25 <@bar> yep

15:25 <@bar> been there

15:26 <@foo> jhannah: even if your dietary goals are ketosis, you don’t really need to pee on strips (IOW monitor what’s coming out). just monitor whats going in :)

15:26 <@bar> my weight loss came from three things. First was a 1000cal per day deficit of my “resting” calorie burn, second was 5g of carb per day put me squarely in ketosis, third is Intermittent Fasting, where all my food came within a single six hour block with 18 hours of fasting between.

15:27 <@bar> almost no exercise

15:27 <@bar> and 2gal of water per day

15:27 <@foo> (and fasting is easier when in ketosis)

15:27 <@bar> and it was an almost straight line loss averaging 0.4lb per day

15:27 <@bar> and when you’re fat adapted

15:28 <@bar> and something something leptin

15:28 <@foo> right, to me i equate being in ketosis with being fat adapted

15:28 <@bar> I was never hungry

15:28 * jhannah also doesn’t know what ‘fat adapted’ means

15:28 <@bar> your body gets calories from one of two sources, carbs or fat, and “prefers” one

15:29 <@bar> it takes time to change that preference

15:29 <@foo> jhannah: it means your body primarily burns fat instead of riding the carb/glucose/insulin roller coaster

15:29 <@bar> once you train your body to prefer to get calories from fat it changes many things chemically

15:29 <@bar> the brain always prefers calories derived from fat

15:29 <@jhannah> uh… I assume paleo low carb is making me 'fat adpated’ then?

15:30 <@foo> yes

15:30 <@bar> and I can attest to this because once I was fully transitioned the depression and anxiety issues I’ve struggled with for my entire life went poof

15:30 <@bar> and my ADD was significantly better

15:30 <@foo> bar: i thought it was the brain that needed a bit of glucose (but the body is happy to provide what it needs via gluconeogenesis)

15:31 <@bar> right

15:31 <@bar> most of the bioscience (not broscience) makes my head spin

15:31 <@bar> Chemistry makes my head spin

15:31 <@foo> yeah

15:31 <@foo> same here. i know enough to be a bit conversant about it, but that’s about it

15:33 <@jhannah> so… once you’re at your target weight, you still want to be 'fat adapted’, and the fat you eat is the fat that makes your brain chemistry happy?

15:33 <@bar> my goal in paleo has nothing to do with my scale weight or bodyfat percentage or pants size.

15:34 <@bar> it’s “This is simply healthier”

15:34 <@foo> there’s no harm in being fat adapted. in fabar i plan to stay that way while getting back into triathlon training so that while i’m training my body will run on fat

15:34 <@bar> the weight and bodyfat come along for the ride

15:34 <@bar> so I never really had a target weight

15:35 <@foo> i had target weights during my weight loss phase. now, not so much. just bodyfat goals :)

15:35 <@foo> (i purposefully put on about 20 lbs of mostly muscle (but some fat). now i’m trying to get rid of that fat, plus the fat that was still around after my major weight loss)

15:35 <@jhannah> what I’m trying to ask is: skinny, athletic people can remain 'fat adapted’ even with low body fat percentages. the fat they eat keeps them 'fat adapted’ without increasing their body fat… yes?

5:40 <@foo> yes

15:40 <@foo> some would call me skinny and athletic. i have a fairly lowish bodyfat percentage.

15:40 <@foo> but let’s do a little math, using round (but not necessarily accurate) numbers for my measurements.

15:41 <@foo> i weigh 150. i have roughly 10% bodyfat. that’s 15 pounds of fat.

15:41 <@foo> you’ll hear time and time again that a pound of fat = 3500 calories, so my 15 pounds of fat means i have 52,500 calories in reserve.

15:42 <@bar> whereas I crap 150

15:43 <@foo> a (male) human can live and be healthy down to about 6%. below that are bodybuilders on stage who can only maintain that for a few hours or else they’ll DIE

15:44 <@foo> but in the end it’s still about calories in vs. calories out. eating fat + protein keeps you satiated longer and it’s easy to maintain the kind of caloric deficit you need to lose fat.

15:44 <@foo> if you get to a weight where you’re fine, go ahead and eat a little more if you like. but a lot of people find it difficult to eat too much if you’re limiting yourself to mostly fat + protein

15:45 <@foo> but don’t worry, you won’t eventually whither away and die.

15:45 * jhannah is a LOOOOONG way from withering :)

15:46 <@foo> your body will strive to maintain itself without you needing to step in. so long as you’re not feeding yourself ungodly amounts of crappy carbs and chemical shitstorms that make up today’s “food”